Also, Lee Elder, I don't think that study was trying to say what you wanted it to say. In that study, it shows that there is a 20% complication rate for blood transfusions and that those 1404 inadvertently avoided that complication by not accepting a blood transfusion. Whether that is true or not, the use of this study by the group's Medical Adviser may not have been the best study to use for the point that you were trying to make.
John Davis
JoinedPosts by John Davis
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103
New Research at AJWRB
by Lee Elder inthe latest research article published at ajwrb estimates the number of jehovah's witnesses who have died from following or being coerced to follow watchtower's blood policy.
the numbers are staggering.
http://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy.
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103
New Research at AJWRB
by Lee Elder inthe latest research article published at ajwrb estimates the number of jehovah's witnesses who have died from following or being coerced to follow watchtower's blood policy.
the numbers are staggering.
http://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy.
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John Davis
Sorry Ruby. I guess I didn't put in the break correctly. I meant I am agreeing with you. I mixed up my comment to you with my critique of the methodology in the essay.
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103
New Research at AJWRB
by Lee Elder inthe latest research article published at ajwrb estimates the number of jehovah's witnesses who have died from following or being coerced to follow watchtower's blood policy.
the numbers are staggering.
http://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy.
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John Davis
Ruby, I agree with you on your issues with the methodology that was used for this essay on AJWRB. The study that was used showed a range from actually 0 increase in morbid and mortality issues, for certain classifications of procedures, all the way up to 1.5% increase for cardiovascular procedures.
So yes a conservative number of 1% for cardiovascular procedures is correct. But then you say that because the Blood Bank Association says that 4 million people in the US need a blood
And yes, the math does show that for every 1000 people in the US 150 of them need a blood transfusion a year.
Though you then try and correlate a 1% increase in mortality for all procedures that blood could possibly be used. That is not a fair assessment of the original author's intention. While yes for certain procedures the mortality would be higher without a blood transfusion that is not all of the procedures that were even listed in the original study. The author even states this in his conclusion:
"The impact on the overall morbidity and mortality is not known; such a study would take decades of observation with large numbers of randomized patients and is unlikely to ever be done. Patients now often question the risk."
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103
New Research at AJWRB
by Lee Elder inthe latest research article published at ajwrb estimates the number of jehovah's witnesses who have died from following or being coerced to follow watchtower's blood policy.
the numbers are staggering.
http://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy.
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John Davis
I was just reading the essay written by Kerry Louderback-Wood entitled Jehovah's Witnesses, Blood Transfusions and the Tort of Misrepresentation. This was written in 2014 and published by AJWRB on their website. She makes some interesting points as to how to some civil strategies to sue Watchtower over this. I am not sure how much of those would hold up in court. But then it raises the question, with all of these cases that are out there how has she not found one plaintiff to use as a test case for her theories. -
103
New Research at AJWRB
by Lee Elder inthe latest research article published at ajwrb estimates the number of jehovah's witnesses who have died from following or being coerced to follow watchtower's blood policy.
the numbers are staggering.
http://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy.
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John Davis
Dundedain:
What do you want people to sue Watchtower over? Ultimately it is the person's choice if they want to obey that policy or not. Can a Catholic who views abortion is murder no matter what the circumstances, can they sue the Catholic church if they die from a condition that could have been resolved by an abortion? No, we all have to be responsible for our own choices.
In fact someone tried to sue, not watchtower but tried to sue the hospital to force that they give their husband a blood transfusion. The wife filed suit saying that if her husband died because of not being given a blood transfusion that she and her son would become destitute as he was the only worker in the family. A lower court granted the application so that they would have to give a blood transfusion, but it went to the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico and the court there ruled that each person has autonomy over their own body and they can choose what they want to accept or deny.
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Suing The Watchtower Corporation For Pain And Suffering Caused By Clandestine Trial Of Corporatly Biased Impartial Judges (A Real Ordeal)
by Brokeback Watchtower ini mean they routinely question the "invited" guest of dishonor to their proceedings: if they have any prohibited recording devices and won't allow any witnesses to be present.
this is cruelly horrible treatment of a human being,, i say this can be a slam dunk in the courts.
maybe not millions but definitely some nice returns for the person and his lawyer.
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John Davis
There was, in fact, one court case where the gentleman who sued Watchtower was in the right and could prove that Watchtower gave him and the elders who DF'd him the wrong information according to their own policies. The court ruled that there is nothing that a civil court can do to remedy the situation, that even if the elders conspired against him there is no remedy that can be given.
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Suing The Watchtower Corporation For Pain And Suffering Caused By Clandestine Trial Of Corporatly Biased Impartial Judges (A Real Ordeal)
by Brokeback Watchtower ini mean they routinely question the "invited" guest of dishonor to their proceedings: if they have any prohibited recording devices and won't allow any witnesses to be present.
this is cruelly horrible treatment of a human being,, i say this can be a slam dunk in the courts.
maybe not millions but definitely some nice returns for the person and his lawyer.
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John Davis
You could be right that a fantastic lawyer may take this on but it would be virtually impossible to win for two main reasons.
The court, at least in the US, will have to ignore 100 years of US Court policy and precedent that civil courts cannot intervene within the internal matters of a religion. A court cannot determine if a religion is correct in their beliefs or how they practice those beliefs as long as it doesn't violate an actual law. It cannot get involved with the discipline of its members or who it determine's it members should or would be. Watchtower is a voluntary organization and can pick it's members at its whim and can remove those same members at any time.
The second is that you would have to prove damages and that those damages were caused by Watchtower and their practices. Even if you claim depression you would have to prove that the depression had it genesis because of your discipline within the JW community. That would be really hard for any psychologist or psychiatrist to definitively say that it the exclusive cause.
But if you think you have a case you should try and find a lawyer and try and file a civil case. If you think it is winnable and can convince a lawyer to take it on then you should definitely try.
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Suing The Watchtower Corporation For Pain And Suffering Caused By Clandestine Trial Of Corporatly Biased Impartial Judges (A Real Ordeal)
by Brokeback Watchtower ini mean they routinely question the "invited" guest of dishonor to their proceedings: if they have any prohibited recording devices and won't allow any witnesses to be present.
this is cruelly horrible treatment of a human being,, i say this can be a slam dunk in the courts.
maybe not millions but definitely some nice returns for the person and his lawyer.
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John Davis
Are you referring to a lawsuit for the decision that a JC makes or for the actual Judicial Committee practice?
The most likely place to file this kind of suit would be in the US because in the US there is a lot more latitude on what you can file a civil suit for and how much you can win in a civil suit. Most of the rest of the world the government limits what you can sue for and the winnable amount of damages that are winnable.
On the whole shunning issue that is pretty much an unwinnable case thanks to Serbian and the Paul decisions. But it would be interesting to see if someone went the other route and tried to sue over the actual Judicial Committee process. It would be really hard to win, your either going to have to have a lot of disposable income, find a lawyer who will take a huge percentage because they will be having a huge risk of winning nothing or you just file in small claims court for the statutory maximum.
That would be an up hill battle but hey in the US you can sue for anything.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
So outlaw you are saying that JWLeaks is an apologist? OK I didn't think that he was but ok.
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103
Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism
by John Davis ini wanted to get people's opinion on something.
how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.
there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.
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John Davis
Then you're a really good forensic IT Specialist or a fantastic linguist. And good for you.